So a couple days ago, a couple of my coworkers and I were chatting, and one of them brought up an interesting book she'd started reading. She began describing it, say how there was an ex-football player inmate who'd recently finished his time and just got out. She explained that there was this rich paraplegic man who saw him in a bar or somewhere and approached him, asking him to sleep with his wife so they could have he and his wife might have kids. He said he wanted him since he didn't want any suspicion by anyone outside thinking it was anyone other than his own kid--that is, he wanted a blond haired, blue eyed kid. Now after my coworker said that, my other coworker suddenly said, "oh, this whole time I thought he was black." My other coworker laughed and said "yeah I guess since I didn't say you would assume that, since he was a football player and in prison."
That was so revealing to me, because I'm not going to evade the point--I, too, thought he was black the whole time and had a moment of confusion when she said a blue eyed blond baby would be born. Obviously what we've been discussing is not only prevalent, but these stereotypes are completely lodged in people's heads, so much so that they don't even really realize it.
After reading Jessica's latest post, I also agree that a lot of people see female athletes as lesbians actually, at least in basketball. I took a class by Victor Villanueva where we had to read a fiction book about a black lesbian and an Asian lesbian, both basketball players. It talked about how a bunch of the girls are lesbians actually and also it seemed like most of the players were of color. I wonder if this book is really based on truth, and if not is it too perpetuating stereotypes? Because I had no previous judgements about athletes being lesbians, until this book and Dr. Villanueva talked about it. I do feel that people think athletes are very masculine--sports clothes can look really look masculine, and the sports themselves are from sports men played. This reminds me of another point brought up earlier, I think by Jessica, about other sports and whether these stereotypes are just about certain sports. I really think it is, because swimmers are not really seen as masculine or lesbian, because it's an individual sport that is still very much geared toward both sexes. Horseback sports are also equal in judgement for the same reasons, and other sports as well: tennis, volleyball (where I know of a few instances where my guy friends only watched it because of their outfits and the way it made their behinds look), track, etc...
Anyways, I do not think people assume that every black person is an athlete, but I do think that people assume that many athletes are black/of color. And I see it in sports. Are stereotypes there because the reality caused them to form, or is reality there because people stereotyped athletes? And another question I hesitated to bring up... are stereotypes stereotypes if they are reflected in reality? I have class in a few minutes, but I am going to investigate the manner and pull out some statistics on this matter.
Friday, December 5, 2008
Wednesday, December 3, 2008
Hmmm...
Betsy brought up some interesting questions and I'm not quite sure how I feel about all of it but I have a few thoughts. At one time, weren't Jewish people believed to be better at sports than other people? I think I remember learning about that before. So now there has been a shift to African Americans being more athletic. Why the change? I have no clue but it will most likely change again. The idea that they were once bred to be bigger is an interesting idea and I never thought about that before. But not all athletes of color are slave descendants. Plus, if they are better athletes from breeding, why don't more black people become athletes. In my experiences, I have met as many African-American non-athletes as African-American Athletes. So I think that if that was the only reason...well I don't know how to end that sentence but I think I made the point.
In response to Aaron's question. I don't really think that my thoughts about student athletes have changed. The dumb jock stereotypes for me have mainly been aimed at football and basketball. Since we didn't really work with those athletes it is hard to say the ones we did work with changed my perspective. Even though it is ignorant and as a somewhat educated person I should be able to look beyond the preconceptions, I am unable too.
I do disagree with one thing that Aaron brought up though. I don't feel that female athletes are generally seen as being leaders for participating in sports. It seems like a lot of female athletes are stereotyped as being masculine and/or a lesbian. Especially in the media, if a woman plays she's always trying to compete with the boys. That's what I see anyway.
In response to Aaron's question. I don't really think that my thoughts about student athletes have changed. The dumb jock stereotypes for me have mainly been aimed at football and basketball. Since we didn't really work with those athletes it is hard to say the ones we did work with changed my perspective. Even though it is ignorant and as a somewhat educated person I should be able to look beyond the preconceptions, I am unable too.
I do disagree with one thing that Aaron brought up though. I don't feel that female athletes are generally seen as being leaders for participating in sports. It seems like a lot of female athletes are stereotyped as being masculine and/or a lesbian. Especially in the media, if a woman plays she's always trying to compete with the boys. That's what I see anyway.
Follow up
In response to Jessica, when I think of the way I have stereotyped student athlete’s as being less intelligent then most, I have only ever thought of those who play football, basketball, and only male athletes. I think this comes from the media’s portrayal of athlete’s, and my acceptance of this over the years. Given that, I would say that the athlete’s participating in the less publicized sports are probably less likely to face the same kind of stereotypes, because they have never been criticized for a lack of intelligence, and therefore people don’t think of them in the same way they do those athlete’s who play the more publicized sports. On that same note, I havenever thought of female athlete’s in the same way that I do males, and I think a good majority would agree with that. It seems that people give female athlete’s a bit more credit because for a women to be in a leadership roll, its assumed that she is driven, goal oriented, and determined otherwise she would not be in such a position, and because of those notions (which too have been promulgated by the media, which often times dictates history) female athlete’s are less likely to be stereotyped as dumb jocks.
To answer the question "for student-athletes of color, does the reputation of being student athletes outweigh ethnic stereotypes? Are they intertwined at all?" I would have to say no the athlete reputation does not outweigh ethnic stereotypes. The ethnic stereotype is that if you are a student of color you are an athlete, and if you are an athlete of color, people assume you attained that position because of your ethnicity and whatever athletic abilities are supposedly inherent to your race (a stereotype). This point was raised throughout the blog, and even lead Betsy to question why it is that the most talented athlete’s are of color.
This leads to Katie's question about how whether it is the University or athlete’s themselves that perpetrate these stereotypes, and their response to them. To be honest, I don’t think the athlete’s care about the stereotypes, and that lack of care could be translated into the athlete’s perpetuating the very stereotypes that seek to degrade them. All of them are aware of the dumb-jock connotation that comes with playing a sport, but what really can they do about it? It has yet to get to a point where there intelligence or lack there of has caused disruption on campus or within their own community, so I really don’t think its anything they have gotten tired of fighting, so much as it simply may not be an issue.
Concurrently, the university is just catering to the needs of the demographic of students they chose to recruit. If there is a division between students and athlete’s its not because of the academic resources provided by the university, so much as it is due to the fact that the athlete’s make up such a small part of the university population, but represent the university as a whole. Therefore, if the university chooses to recruit "high-risk" athlete’s then they know that in order for those students to be successful they must set up a work environment that best caters to their needs so that those athlete’s can cater to the needs of the university. The only real reason why there is a division between the athletes and other students is because they are more recognizable figures than most on campus, and therefore like any other minority group, are subjected to immediate scrutiny or praise.
As for my own question after reading all the responses and our experience, I’d like to know if anyone’s view’s on these athlete’s changed, and if so why or why not? Where is it that we get these stereotypes, and why are we, intelligent people well versed in the politics of racism and Burke’s rhetoric of identification, still so willing to continue to stereotype others? Just curious.
To answer the question "for student-athletes of color, does the reputation of being student athletes outweigh ethnic stereotypes? Are they intertwined at all?" I would have to say no the athlete reputation does not outweigh ethnic stereotypes. The ethnic stereotype is that if you are a student of color you are an athlete, and if you are an athlete of color, people assume you attained that position because of your ethnicity and whatever athletic abilities are supposedly inherent to your race (a stereotype). This point was raised throughout the blog, and even lead Betsy to question why it is that the most talented athlete’s are of color.
This leads to Katie's question about how whether it is the University or athlete’s themselves that perpetrate these stereotypes, and their response to them. To be honest, I don’t think the athlete’s care about the stereotypes, and that lack of care could be translated into the athlete’s perpetuating the very stereotypes that seek to degrade them. All of them are aware of the dumb-jock connotation that comes with playing a sport, but what really can they do about it? It has yet to get to a point where there intelligence or lack there of has caused disruption on campus or within their own community, so I really don’t think its anything they have gotten tired of fighting, so much as it simply may not be an issue.
Concurrently, the university is just catering to the needs of the demographic of students they chose to recruit. If there is a division between students and athlete’s its not because of the academic resources provided by the university, so much as it is due to the fact that the athlete’s make up such a small part of the university population, but represent the university as a whole. Therefore, if the university chooses to recruit "high-risk" athlete’s then they know that in order for those students to be successful they must set up a work environment that best caters to their needs so that those athlete’s can cater to the needs of the university. The only real reason why there is a division between the athletes and other students is because they are more recognizable figures than most on campus, and therefore like any other minority group, are subjected to immediate scrutiny or praise.
As for my own question after reading all the responses and our experience, I’d like to know if anyone’s view’s on these athlete’s changed, and if so why or why not? Where is it that we get these stereotypes, and why are we, intelligent people well versed in the politics of racism and Burke’s rhetoric of identification, still so willing to continue to stereotype others? Just curious.
Monday, December 1, 2008
once again (briefly)
i do not have a lot of time to discuss this, but i would like to vehemently reiterate that the majority of the undergraduate students of color on this campus ARE NOT ATHLETES.
taking data from the institutional research report, the number of students of color enrolled fall 2008 was 2,296 on the pullman campus, while white students accounted for 11,342 students. a staggering statistic.
roughly tallying the number of student-athletes, we have around 345 total. even if EVERY STUDENT ATHLETE was a student of color, it would be nowhere near the total number of students of color.
stereotypes exist because information is false and it is taken as fact. hurting not only the students targeted, but society as a whole.
taking data from the institutional research report, the number of students of color enrolled fall 2008 was 2,296 on the pullman campus, while white students accounted for 11,342 students. a staggering statistic.
roughly tallying the number of student-athletes, we have around 345 total. even if EVERY STUDENT ATHLETE was a student of color, it would be nowhere near the total number of students of color.
stereotypes exist because information is false and it is taken as fact. hurting not only the students targeted, but society as a whole.
A Continuation...
First of all Katie posed an interesting question that I would like to address. She mentioned that diversity comes mainly from WSU's athletic department in that many athletes are those of color. Katie wondered if WSU was to blame, which I felt was a fair question. However, I decided that WSU, while participating somewhat in the stereotypes that athletes are students of color mainly, the problem arises long before that. I mean, I think various societal factors fit in when looking that the reasons behind the large amount of athletes of color. Throughout elementary school, middle and beyond it is reinforced that athletes are often of color, especially black. Even I, who hardly knows sports at all, know a few famous athletes and they are nearly all black: Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Muhammed Ali, etc. The only white ones I can think of are Babe Ruth, Michael Phelps, Reiner Klimke... anyways, you get the point. So yeah, it really seems like one of two things are going on here: 1.) People of color, namely, Black individuals have better athletic abilities or, 2.) Stereotypes cause a skewed perspective within our society that causes everyone to believe Black individuals are better at sports and thus are reflected. I am prone to believe that 2 is correct, especially from hearing about a test some psychologists did a while back. I can't remember the numbers completely now, but I learned about it in my Chicana Studies class that these scientists did a few tests on white groups of people vs other groups of people. The one most pertinent was between two groups of white people and two groups of black people, same numbers and genders, to determine whether stereotypes played a role. They interviewed all of them, but in one group of white and black people they made sure to bring up their race (just kind of nonchalantly ask about it, sort of imbedded within the other questions) while in the others they didn't. Then, they had them all play golf and this is where is gets interesting--in the groups where they mentioned the race of those being interviewed, the black people did like eight strokes better than the white people, but in the groups where they didn't mention their races the scores were nearly identical. This was further tested based on white women and Asian women while doing math tests and white people and black people on some academic testing too.
So, with that said, I will return to Katies inquiry. Because these tests further bolster the idea that stereotypes play a vastly bigger role on individual talent often times than actual skill, I believe that more than WSU is at work in building these stereotypes here. They are brought up within all people and with them come expectations. People expect people to be a certain way based on their looks. Jessica wrote earlier that "to reduce everyone within a social group to one quality is dangerous" and I completely agree--yet it is happening constantly.
At the tutoring session, I expected the students we were going to help were going to be less skilled at writing based on two levels: 1.) That they aren't English majors and it's just for a GenEd class and 2.) Because they were athletes. Both can be factors for being a little clumsy at writing--if you don't like it, if you haven't practiced a lot and also if you don't have much time, as Sarah mentioned. So I guess I made fair judgments but still carried the stereotypes of race with me (and it was actually kind of manifested--many who came in were those of color). So that brings up another issue actually: because stereotypes are in place, they are often reflected (if you are told you are made for something or are really good at it for a long enough, or vice versa, if will be unconsciously reflected by you.) and thus encourage these stereotypes.
So that gets me to an interesting point... that is, I'm now a little less clear on my stance. I mean, is it because of stereotypes that black people seem to be better at sports or is it because they are actually good at sports that the stereotype persists? I remember I was chatting with a friend once and he made a point that black people were bred through slavery to be physically better, thus more are better athletically than white people. I couldn't really completely disregard this, since it might be partially true that only the strong survived while enslaved, and it made me wonder. What do you guys think about this argument?
So, with that said, I will return to Katies inquiry. Because these tests further bolster the idea that stereotypes play a vastly bigger role on individual talent often times than actual skill, I believe that more than WSU is at work in building these stereotypes here. They are brought up within all people and with them come expectations. People expect people to be a certain way based on their looks. Jessica wrote earlier that "to reduce everyone within a social group to one quality is dangerous" and I completely agree--yet it is happening constantly.
At the tutoring session, I expected the students we were going to help were going to be less skilled at writing based on two levels: 1.) That they aren't English majors and it's just for a GenEd class and 2.) Because they were athletes. Both can be factors for being a little clumsy at writing--if you don't like it, if you haven't practiced a lot and also if you don't have much time, as Sarah mentioned. So I guess I made fair judgments but still carried the stereotypes of race with me (and it was actually kind of manifested--many who came in were those of color). So that brings up another issue actually: because stereotypes are in place, they are often reflected (if you are told you are made for something or are really good at it for a long enough, or vice versa, if will be unconsciously reflected by you.) and thus encourage these stereotypes.
So that gets me to an interesting point... that is, I'm now a little less clear on my stance. I mean, is it because of stereotypes that black people seem to be better at sports or is it because they are actually good at sports that the stereotype persists? I remember I was chatting with a friend once and he made a point that black people were bred through slavery to be physically better, thus more are better athletically than white people. I couldn't really completely disregard this, since it might be partially true that only the strong survived while enslaved, and it made me wonder. What do you guys think about this argument?
synthesizing
While it encourages me that there are students ("colleagues, as Sarah puts it =) who will have a discussion about this subject, it is also disappointing and disturbing to read anecdotes like Aaron's. One thing that I keep thinking of while reading these posts is Burke's rhetoric of identity and othering - specifically the part where he says something along the lines of "when you focus on one thing, you are choosing to ignore the other" - essentially creating that division that makes everything black and white, no gray. Everything we have been discussing - student-athlete or non-student-athlete, white or non-white, brains or brawn - falls under this category. Why is it that all students of color are assumed to be athletes, and that all athletes are assumed to be unintelligent? I think everyone has fallen prey to this stereotype at one point - a year ago I had a black guy in my History of Rhetoric class who showed up wearing a basketball jersey and basketball shoes, and when he pulled out a copy of "phaedrus" with pages of notes in the margins and highlighted sections and a list of questions for discussion, I almost fell out of my chair because I was so surprised. Why? Because he was black, so I thought he was an athlete (turns out he wasn't)? Is that how our university culture has conditioned us to respond? WSU tries to claim that we are diverse, hiring a black president, and on the "Why WSU?" page of the WSU webpage featuring an Asian-American professor speaking to a Middle-Eastern student (my exboyfriend, ironically, who I know occasionally felt out of place at this pretty much all-white campus), and yet one only has to look at the GLBT hate crimes that have been going on here or the way that the majority of campus dubs CES majors as "granola-chewing tree-hugging liberals" to see that the effort to increase diversity and understanding - cross-cultural communication, if you will - made by much of the campus (NOT everyone) is half-hearted, at best.
The fact that we are lumping all student-athletes into one category shows that we ourselves are almost victims of the same stereotyping we are trying to shed light on. As a former employee of Northside Cafe, I have worked in the Cougar Fitness Cafe and witnessed firsthand athletes boasting that they can break rules and get away with whatever they want just because they can, treat non-athletes rudely and in general act as though they ran the school. I have also witnessed firsthand friends on the swimteam and the rowing team who were up at 4:30 every morning to make it to practice, while working and going to school and DD-ing for non-athletes who were going out when they themselves couldn't go out because they had practice in the morning. While I understand that we have to, for the sake of our argument here, I do think that to lump all athletes into the same category does them a disservice, because like in every generalization, you will find exceptions on both sides of the spectrum.
One thing I would like to respond to in Sarah's post, about how student-athletes utilize the ARC because they are treated with respect and genuine care and that other resources on campus may be a "stigmatizing environment" where they are assumed to be lacking in intelligence. I work with hardworking, patient, respectful and genuine students (some of whom are volunteering their time) in a university-run resource center and I have yet to overhear any of them treating anyone disprespectfully based on any social aspect - ESL difficulties, which Greek letters are on their sweatshirt, if they are wearing an Islamic veil, etc. If student-athletes feel that they are viewed as "he/she must be dumb because he/she plays sports," perhaps this stems from the fact that to an outsider it may appear that student-athletes are too good for the resources provided for all students - that they have to have something different, something better, and something separate. Once outsiders get this idea, then student-athletes really do feel uncomfortable/unwelcome and then the whole cycle perpetuates, increasing the isolation and division of the student-athlete from the rest of the student body. While student-athletes may prefer the resources at the ARC because they know more people and feel more at home there, I do think it is unfair to say that anything outside the ARC stigmatizes athletes (I know this isn't what Sarah said, btw, I'm just taking it a step further to illustrate a point - although I think it is interesting to hear Sarah's point of view from a very similar job just in the opposite side of the student-athlete barrier). Also I think it is important to point out that other organizations are funded outside the university - Greek chapters by national organizations, student organizations by fundraisers, etc. - but that all student-athlete resources are funded by the university. So how much of the division between student-athletes and the other part of the student body is caused by the university itself? How much does the university just perpetuate those stereotypes, and how much do student-athletes perpetuate them themselves? Do they just get tired of trying to fight the stereotypes? What gives?
The fact that we are lumping all student-athletes into one category shows that we ourselves are almost victims of the same stereotyping we are trying to shed light on. As a former employee of Northside Cafe, I have worked in the Cougar Fitness Cafe and witnessed firsthand athletes boasting that they can break rules and get away with whatever they want just because they can, treat non-athletes rudely and in general act as though they ran the school. I have also witnessed firsthand friends on the swimteam and the rowing team who were up at 4:30 every morning to make it to practice, while working and going to school and DD-ing for non-athletes who were going out when they themselves couldn't go out because they had practice in the morning. While I understand that we have to, for the sake of our argument here, I do think that to lump all athletes into the same category does them a disservice, because like in every generalization, you will find exceptions on both sides of the spectrum.
One thing I would like to respond to in Sarah's post, about how student-athletes utilize the ARC because they are treated with respect and genuine care and that other resources on campus may be a "stigmatizing environment" where they are assumed to be lacking in intelligence. I work with hardworking, patient, respectful and genuine students (some of whom are volunteering their time) in a university-run resource center and I have yet to overhear any of them treating anyone disprespectfully based on any social aspect - ESL difficulties, which Greek letters are on their sweatshirt, if they are wearing an Islamic veil, etc. If student-athletes feel that they are viewed as "he/she must be dumb because he/she plays sports," perhaps this stems from the fact that to an outsider it may appear that student-athletes are too good for the resources provided for all students - that they have to have something different, something better, and something separate. Once outsiders get this idea, then student-athletes really do feel uncomfortable/unwelcome and then the whole cycle perpetuates, increasing the isolation and division of the student-athlete from the rest of the student body. While student-athletes may prefer the resources at the ARC because they know more people and feel more at home there, I do think it is unfair to say that anything outside the ARC stigmatizes athletes (I know this isn't what Sarah said, btw, I'm just taking it a step further to illustrate a point - although I think it is interesting to hear Sarah's point of view from a very similar job just in the opposite side of the student-athlete barrier). Also I think it is important to point out that other organizations are funded outside the university - Greek chapters by national organizations, student organizations by fundraisers, etc. - but that all student-athlete resources are funded by the university. So how much of the division between student-athletes and the other part of the student body is caused by the university itself? How much does the university just perpetuate those stereotypes, and how much do student-athletes perpetuate them themselves? Do they just get tired of trying to fight the stereotypes? What gives?
Sunday, November 30, 2008
Some answers...
To answer Sarah's questions, I think that a general perspective of student-athletes is that they take cake classes and expect things to be spoon-fed to them. Even though many people know athletes who are exceptions, the stereotype outweighs the experiences. This summer, I took a class and was not very happy when I was paired with a football player for a project. I expected a lack of commitment and drive from him. But I was surprised when he showed up to our meetings and had actually been thinking about our project and had some good ideas. Still going in to the tutoring I expected the students to want us to carry them through their assignments.
The stereotypical image does provoke anger and jealousy by some but I think it rarely makes non-athlete students feel pity. Even though most of us have taken some CES or Women's Studies class or a similar one teaching us not to buy into stereotypes about gender, race, etc. and too stand up for those who are oppressed we rarely think twice about other kinds of social groupings and the stigmas they carry. It is important to remember that most groups have some stereotype of being ignorant or uneducated, think white trash, lazy immigrants, and the whole frat boy/sorostitute stereotypes. Even as an English major I'm criticized for my major not being a real major and praised for choosing a major that requires so much reading and papers because of how hard it all is. But to reduce everyone within a social group to one quality is dangerous. Sure some may fall into that category but most probably don't.
To address Katie's feelings/questions, people don't realize how much support they can get on campus. Even though most students have heard about the writing center there are other tutoring programs in different majors and places that students can go for help related to specific courses. The culturally based centers were also referenced. Each of these centers set up incoming Freshman with mentors to help them during the year and have tutors in their centers to help with courses. There is also free printing and open computer use in the centers. Aside from the mentors, these resources are open to all students but most people do not feel comfortable in the centers unless they belong to the particular ethnic groups of the centers. SSS also provides special workshops for students and free textbooks. Though student-athletes do have their gyms, dining center, etc. most RSO affiliations have bonuses to help their members succeed in college. But everyone goes to places they feel most comfortable. Most people who consider themselves to be Chicano/Latino, AAPI, Native American, or African American stick "their" center in a similar way, student-athletes stick to their tutoring program. Why do we use the AML, as English majors, instead of going to the library? I'm sure they want to go to a place set-up specifically for them to succeed taking their culture (student-athlete) into consideration.
We all agree that student-athletes have a lot of responsibilities to juggle. So maybe the administration thinks that this sort of support system for athletes helps them force themselves to sit down and study. Just as students find refuge in the quiet of Holland Library during finals week as a place to concentrate on studying without other distractions, student-athletes have a place they can do this surrounded by other people who can relate to a chaotic schedule.
About Chuck's question, I do think most of the students will use our help. As Aaron mentioned, the two girls that came in together really needed help more with setting up their paper then actually writing it and we helped them understand what there thesis should do and where it should be in the paper. Both girls had plenty of information and knew what they wanted to include before they came in and since they noted our layout suggestions, I think they'll use it. Mackenzie seemed to help her partner find many outside resources and I can't imagine all that work going to waste.
As for my own question, I am curious to know what everyone else thinks about lumping together all student-athletes. Do most of these stereotypes come from a few sports in particular? It seems like we usually think of football, basketball, track, and sometimes baseball when thinking about student-athletes. Do athlets of tennis, swimming, and other less publicized sports really face the same kind of stereotypes as other sports? Some people also talked about diversity, for student-athletes of color, does the reputation of students being athletes outweigh ethnic stereotypes? Are they intertwined at all?
The stereotypical image does provoke anger and jealousy by some but I think it rarely makes non-athlete students feel pity. Even though most of us have taken some CES or Women's Studies class or a similar one teaching us not to buy into stereotypes about gender, race, etc. and too stand up for those who are oppressed we rarely think twice about other kinds of social groupings and the stigmas they carry. It is important to remember that most groups have some stereotype of being ignorant or uneducated, think white trash, lazy immigrants, and the whole frat boy/sorostitute stereotypes. Even as an English major I'm criticized for my major not being a real major and praised for choosing a major that requires so much reading and papers because of how hard it all is. But to reduce everyone within a social group to one quality is dangerous. Sure some may fall into that category but most probably don't.
To address Katie's feelings/questions, people don't realize how much support they can get on campus. Even though most students have heard about the writing center there are other tutoring programs in different majors and places that students can go for help related to specific courses. The culturally based centers were also referenced. Each of these centers set up incoming Freshman with mentors to help them during the year and have tutors in their centers to help with courses. There is also free printing and open computer use in the centers. Aside from the mentors, these resources are open to all students but most people do not feel comfortable in the centers unless they belong to the particular ethnic groups of the centers. SSS also provides special workshops for students and free textbooks. Though student-athletes do have their gyms, dining center, etc. most RSO affiliations have bonuses to help their members succeed in college. But everyone goes to places they feel most comfortable. Most people who consider themselves to be Chicano/Latino, AAPI, Native American, or African American stick "their" center in a similar way, student-athletes stick to their tutoring program. Why do we use the AML, as English majors, instead of going to the library? I'm sure they want to go to a place set-up specifically for them to succeed taking their culture (student-athlete) into consideration.
We all agree that student-athletes have a lot of responsibilities to juggle. So maybe the administration thinks that this sort of support system for athletes helps them force themselves to sit down and study. Just as students find refuge in the quiet of Holland Library during finals week as a place to concentrate on studying without other distractions, student-athletes have a place they can do this surrounded by other people who can relate to a chaotic schedule.
About Chuck's question, I do think most of the students will use our help. As Aaron mentioned, the two girls that came in together really needed help more with setting up their paper then actually writing it and we helped them understand what there thesis should do and where it should be in the paper. Both girls had plenty of information and knew what they wanted to include before they came in and since they noted our layout suggestions, I think they'll use it. Mackenzie seemed to help her partner find many outside resources and I can't imagine all that work going to waste.
As for my own question, I am curious to know what everyone else thinks about lumping together all student-athletes. Do most of these stereotypes come from a few sports in particular? It seems like we usually think of football, basketball, track, and sometimes baseball when thinking about student-athletes. Do athlets of tennis, swimming, and other less publicized sports really face the same kind of stereotypes as other sports? Some people also talked about diversity, for student-athletes of color, does the reputation of students being athletes outweigh ethnic stereotypes? Are they intertwined at all?
clarity
one of the largest issues i have had to deal with working in the athletic department, specifically from those whom i talk to about my current job, are precisely the comments from my colleagues.
while many of the student athletes are of color, these students represent nowhere near half of the total population of students of color on campus. by making the assumption that the diversity of this campus comes from student-athletes, the continual connection of athlete-person of color is only solidified-- and students of color who are not athletes (like our colleague Aaron) will only continue to be assumed an athlete, therefore assumed to be less-than academically.
the point raised by Aaron in her post was the most intriguing to me: the faculty's response to students of color (athlete or no) is one of the most frustrating aspects of this campus. and due to the recent budget cuts, it looks like no one cares about recruiting faculty of color, let alone beefing up any sort of diversity education here. what needs to be addressed first and foremost is that creating limiting stereotypes for all students makes it possible for us as a whole to live down to the expectations put upon us by faculty. and although i'm sure the professors did not intentionally mean to insult Aaron, it is disabling to any student to have a professor assume intelligence based on race or any other social factor.
the fact is, student-athletes make money for this University- but more than anything they work very hard at what they do. in season, student-athletes practice 20 hours a week on top of competition alone. it is rare to find many regular students who spend their time working that hard. many students do hold jobs for 20 hours a week (like myself) but there are many students who don't- what many athletes don't get credit for is how much they do get done. resources are available for all students, but what i have found from many student-athletes is that resources in the ARC are used because the academic counselors they have there treat them with respect and genuine care. i wouldn't want to go into a stigmatizing environment that assumes i am dumb because i play sports. it is a safe environment, point blank. much the same way other students join other organizations (church groups, the greek system, multicultural grousp, etc), a community is formed that supports all aspects of life. as a scholarship student athlete, many of whom do not have the community of friends from home or high school.
also, a stat that many people don't know and surprised me after about 6 months of working: The graduation rate for those in the University sits about 60% for those staying five years or less. Others drop out. For student athletes who exhaust their eligibility (which means they compete for four years and usually stay for five) the aggregate data from ten years reveals a 96% graduation rate.
stereotypes abound for all of us, regardless of what groups we choose to affiliate ourselves with. unfortunately, student-athletes are the face of this University so their stereotypes are made all the more salient to fellow students, faculty, and staff. how can we tell the University in a greater way about the problems that all of us have talked about here? what should be done?
while many of the student athletes are of color, these students represent nowhere near half of the total population of students of color on campus. by making the assumption that the diversity of this campus comes from student-athletes, the continual connection of athlete-person of color is only solidified-- and students of color who are not athletes (like our colleague Aaron) will only continue to be assumed an athlete, therefore assumed to be less-than academically.
the point raised by Aaron in her post was the most intriguing to me: the faculty's response to students of color (athlete or no) is one of the most frustrating aspects of this campus. and due to the recent budget cuts, it looks like no one cares about recruiting faculty of color, let alone beefing up any sort of diversity education here. what needs to be addressed first and foremost is that creating limiting stereotypes for all students makes it possible for us as a whole to live down to the expectations put upon us by faculty. and although i'm sure the professors did not intentionally mean to insult Aaron, it is disabling to any student to have a professor assume intelligence based on race or any other social factor.
the fact is, student-athletes make money for this University- but more than anything they work very hard at what they do. in season, student-athletes practice 20 hours a week on top of competition alone. it is rare to find many regular students who spend their time working that hard. many students do hold jobs for 20 hours a week (like myself) but there are many students who don't- what many athletes don't get credit for is how much they do get done. resources are available for all students, but what i have found from many student-athletes is that resources in the ARC are used because the academic counselors they have there treat them with respect and genuine care. i wouldn't want to go into a stigmatizing environment that assumes i am dumb because i play sports. it is a safe environment, point blank. much the same way other students join other organizations (church groups, the greek system, multicultural grousp, etc), a community is formed that supports all aspects of life. as a scholarship student athlete, many of whom do not have the community of friends from home or high school.
also, a stat that many people don't know and surprised me after about 6 months of working: The graduation rate for those in the University sits about 60% for those staying five years or less. Others drop out. For student athletes who exhaust their eligibility (which means they compete for four years and usually stay for five) the aggregate data from ten years reveals a 96% graduation rate.
stereotypes abound for all of us, regardless of what groups we choose to affiliate ourselves with. unfortunately, student-athletes are the face of this University so their stereotypes are made all the more salient to fellow students, faculty, and staff. how can we tell the University in a greater way about the problems that all of us have talked about here? what should be done?
In Response...
To Sarah’s question, when I think of student athlete’s,I immediately assume them to be less than average students simply because of the fact that they are athlete’s, and most of them were accepted to this school because of it, not because they are stellar students. Given that, and my devastating lack of athletic ability, I give them props for using their athletic talents to afford them the opportunity to get an education, and being able to do both at once. I feel that the majority of students think that the athlete’s are doing exactly what they wish they could be doing, playing a sport, and skating by through school. I’m sure I’m not the only one who has heard of athlete’s passing classes simply because they play a sport and represent the school, so I would venture to say there is a toss up between how people feel about athletes, some are probably jealous, others angry, but most accepting the system that caters to them for what it is.
To address the question Katie raised " is that because students of color have been told they can succeed only through athletics and have never been encouraged to place an emphasis on academics?" I’d like a to draw upon personal experience. Given that I am a student of color, and like Katie said most of the diversity around here comes from the athletics, in my 4 ½ years here, during all but maybe 2 semesters I have been approached by at least 1 teacher, asking me if I am a student athlete, and will be missing any classes, or if there are any forms they need to fill out so that I can play whatever sport I am supposedly here for. Clearly this was done based purely on my race because I have never given any indication that I was an athlete, or presented myself in a way that one could assume that I was.
When this first occurred I assumed the teacher was ignorant and wrote it off as simply that, but as it continued, I too wondered if students of color, particularly athletes have been told that the only way the could succeed is through athletics. Clearly, those professors who approached me in such a manner hold this to be true, otherwise they would not have asked me so non-chalantly, or at all for that matter. And if this is the case, the fact that our educators are using that mentality to judge or perceive their students, in one way or another I’m sure this is translated to the students of color, who do feel the only way to succeed is through athletics, and that’s why a majority of them are students of color (although I know there are probably more that play into that fact), at least that’s how I felt after being asked that numerous times. This too could explain why student athletes come to rely on tutors or tutoring programs to succeed academically, because in doing so, they are allowed to play sports, the one thing that have been successful at and the reason why the more "high-risk" ones are here getting an education.
Personally, because of my experiences, I have shied away from being associated with students athletes partly because I feel that people will assume that I am one, and given that, am not here based on my academic merits, but my athletic ability. Had I not had this experience, I don’t know what my answer to this question would be. I do however feel that student athletes are some of the hardest working students here, who’s priorities/obligations differ greatly from everyone else, and because of that, I do think it is a great that they have the opportunity to have access to tutors, and additional academic assistance to help with the daily load they have to carry. Further, if they didn't have this programming, they may not make grades, we wouldn’t have reputable sports teams, the school would make no money, etc.
Chuck’s question, of whether or not they will use what we learned for their future papers, I can honestly say that I thought we had a pretty positive experience with the two girls that came in together. We broke down exactly how to write a successful thesis and paper pretty clearly and it seemed as if they were getting it and understood what we were saying, so I’d like to think they will use those concepts and ideas we gave them.
For my own question, I’m still thinking of something I’d like to know from our experience, or each others responses, so I’ll get back to ya!
To address the question Katie raised " is that because students of color have been told they can succeed only through athletics and have never been encouraged to place an emphasis on academics?" I’d like a to draw upon personal experience. Given that I am a student of color, and like Katie said most of the diversity around here comes from the athletics, in my 4 ½ years here, during all but maybe 2 semesters I have been approached by at least 1 teacher, asking me if I am a student athlete, and will be missing any classes, or if there are any forms they need to fill out so that I can play whatever sport I am supposedly here for. Clearly this was done based purely on my race because I have never given any indication that I was an athlete, or presented myself in a way that one could assume that I was.
When this first occurred I assumed the teacher was ignorant and wrote it off as simply that, but as it continued, I too wondered if students of color, particularly athletes have been told that the only way the could succeed is through athletics. Clearly, those professors who approached me in such a manner hold this to be true, otherwise they would not have asked me so non-chalantly, or at all for that matter. And if this is the case, the fact that our educators are using that mentality to judge or perceive their students, in one way or another I’m sure this is translated to the students of color, who do feel the only way to succeed is through athletics, and that’s why a majority of them are students of color (although I know there are probably more that play into that fact), at least that’s how I felt after being asked that numerous times. This too could explain why student athletes come to rely on tutors or tutoring programs to succeed academically, because in doing so, they are allowed to play sports, the one thing that have been successful at and the reason why the more "high-risk" ones are here getting an education.
Personally, because of my experiences, I have shied away from being associated with students athletes partly because I feel that people will assume that I am one, and given that, am not here based on my academic merits, but my athletic ability. Had I not had this experience, I don’t know what my answer to this question would be. I do however feel that student athletes are some of the hardest working students here, who’s priorities/obligations differ greatly from everyone else, and because of that, I do think it is a great that they have the opportunity to have access to tutors, and additional academic assistance to help with the daily load they have to carry. Further, if they didn't have this programming, they may not make grades, we wouldn’t have reputable sports teams, the school would make no money, etc.
Chuck’s question, of whether or not they will use what we learned for their future papers, I can honestly say that I thought we had a pretty positive experience with the two girls that came in together. We broke down exactly how to write a successful thesis and paper pretty clearly and it seemed as if they were getting it and understood what we were saying, so I’d like to think they will use those concepts and ideas we gave them.
For my own question, I’m still thinking of something I’d like to know from our experience, or each others responses, so I’ll get back to ya!
Question and Awnser
After going and working with the student-athletes, I only really have one question. Do you think that after us helping them, do you think that they will use our suggestion/techniques and look at not only their current papers but their future papers differently? Basically, do you think they will use the suggestions and techniques we helped them with in their future papers?
Also, to give answer to Sara's question: What does the rest of the University percieve student athletes to be academically? I'm not really sure. I think being a student athelete comes with the stereotype of not being very bright, but we all know that's not true. I'm not sure how the studentss percieve student-atheltes, but I have had a student-athelete tutor me in Math, I know that student-athelets have alot on their plate in balancing academics and sports, so to me, student-athelets are dedicated and are very hard workers.
Also, to give answer to Sara's question: What does the rest of the University percieve student athletes to be academically? I'm not really sure. I think being a student athelete comes with the stereotype of not being very bright, but we all know that's not true. I'm not sure how the studentss percieve student-atheltes, but I have had a student-athelete tutor me in Math, I know that student-athelets have alot on their plate in balancing academics and sports, so to me, student-athelets are dedicated and are very hard workers.
thoughts on student-athletic culture, post-workshop
In my experience at the writing workshop, I felt that certain stereotypes about student athletes were reinforced. For example, the athlete I helped for about an hour or so with his paper, expected me to tell him exactly what to write and occasionally asked me to repeat exactly what I had said so he could write it in his paper. Asking, "what would you write here?" or "what are you trying to say here in this sentence?" were met with blank stares, although he had all of his notes, research, and a half-formed paper with him. I'm sure this is partly due to him being in a new situation and he was unsure of how a writing tutorial should run, but is it also because the average student athlete at WSU is accustomed to being catered to in some way? Student athletes have their own gym, section of a dining center, and tutoring center - more exclusive programs than any other student minority group on campus (most of whom have only offices in the CUB).
This gives the impression that student athletes are given preferential treatment - not by peers but by the administration. The question of whether or not they deserve those perks is not the issue here - it is why do they get them? Does the administration feel that the student athlete is incapable of succeeding in the environment expected of a non-athlete student? In my opinion, this is insulting to the student-athlete. What are the problems with services provided for the campus as a whole, that student-athletes require separate services? If they are not suitable for athletes, why are they adequate for the rest of the campus? For example, what is wrong with the Undergraduate Writing Center that athletes need their own tutoring program? I would be interested to hear the University's explanation of this - "separate but equal"?
Sarah mentioned "high-risk" athletes - those whose academics might compromise their athletic eligibility. This makes me wonder how student-athletes, if they do not meet the academic standards for admission but are accepted to the school for the athletic program, would use that to define their culture within both the athletic and academic arenas of the campus? Another point is the greater issue of race within athletics. It is obvious that most of WSU's so-called "diversity" comes from athletics - is that because students of color have been told they can succeed only through athletics and have never been encouraged to place an emphasis on academics? On the other side of the coin, is it fair to blame institutions of public education, etc., for individuals failing to push themselves academically? And how does this affect student-athlete culture on campus, both within the athletics department and outside it? Do student-athletes feel that they are owed special treatment because they are athletes (sense of entitlement) or do they think they are undeserving of so many perks? Or is it merely a matter of, athletes have different needs than those of the regular student? (And: how is this justified?)
In response to Sarah's question, I was talking this over with some friends and the general consensus was, "I think student-athletes get too many perks, but if I was a student-athlete, I would want perks too." I think the majority of the campus regards student-athletes as necessary to the school (good athletes sell tickets to games, after all, plus everyone likes to brag about the Cougs), and I'm sure some are jealous of the perks they recieve, especially those who think athletes are undeserving, as well those who feel that full-ride athletic scholarships could be better used on someone who actually is here for the academics of the university, rather than athletics.
This gives the impression that student athletes are given preferential treatment - not by peers but by the administration. The question of whether or not they deserve those perks is not the issue here - it is why do they get them? Does the administration feel that the student athlete is incapable of succeeding in the environment expected of a non-athlete student? In my opinion, this is insulting to the student-athlete. What are the problems with services provided for the campus as a whole, that student-athletes require separate services? If they are not suitable for athletes, why are they adequate for the rest of the campus? For example, what is wrong with the Undergraduate Writing Center that athletes need their own tutoring program? I would be interested to hear the University's explanation of this - "separate but equal"?
Sarah mentioned "high-risk" athletes - those whose academics might compromise their athletic eligibility. This makes me wonder how student-athletes, if they do not meet the academic standards for admission but are accepted to the school for the athletic program, would use that to define their culture within both the athletic and academic arenas of the campus? Another point is the greater issue of race within athletics. It is obvious that most of WSU's so-called "diversity" comes from athletics - is that because students of color have been told they can succeed only through athletics and have never been encouraged to place an emphasis on academics? On the other side of the coin, is it fair to blame institutions of public education, etc., for individuals failing to push themselves academically? And how does this affect student-athlete culture on campus, both within the athletics department and outside it? Do student-athletes feel that they are owed special treatment because they are athletes (sense of entitlement) or do they think they are undeserving of so many perks? Or is it merely a matter of, athletes have different needs than those of the regular student? (And: how is this justified?)
In response to Sarah's question, I was talking this over with some friends and the general consensus was, "I think student-athletes get too many perks, but if I was a student-athlete, I would want perks too." I think the majority of the campus regards student-athletes as necessary to the school (good athletes sell tickets to games, after all, plus everyone likes to brag about the Cougs), and I'm sure some are jealous of the perks they recieve, especially those who think athletes are undeserving, as well those who feel that full-ride athletic scholarships could be better used on someone who actually is here for the academics of the university, rather than athletics.
Wednesday, November 26, 2008
perceptions
After having the experience in the culture of the Athletic Department, the question that continues to come to my mind is this: What does the rest of the University perceive student-athletes to be academically?
I have been either a student-athlete or worked with student athletes since I've been at WSU, and I have wondering what the image of the student-athlete is for others. Did the image of the student athlete bring about anger? pity? jealousy?
Let it out. I'm anxious to know.
I have been either a student-athlete or worked with student athletes since I've been at WSU, and I have wondering what the image of the student-athlete is for others. Did the image of the student athlete bring about anger? pity? jealousy?
Let it out. I'm anxious to know.
Wednesday, November 12, 2008
Hmm...What to expect
I think this tutoring experience will be a fun one. Its not often that we get to work with students who are not within our classes or majors, so I am interested to see not only how much we help them, but perhaps how much we'll learn about ourselves as writers and mentors. My expectations are that we will be working with motivated students who are here voluntarily to work and learn how to write a successful paper. Since they will be writing GenEd papers, I'm sure through their research they could teach me a thing or two as well, which is key, because I think there needs to be a mutual understanding of willingness to learn from one another in order to make this a productive experience. Given my preconceived notions of this demographic of students, I think it will be important to keep in mind that they are not the most highly skilled writers, and that there will need to be a level of patience from us as the tutors, and the students as well. Ideally, I'd like to go into this with an open mind and expect nothing but a positive experience, and I'm sure it'll be an interesting one.
Sunday, November 9, 2008
Yay!
Yay means Yes I am excited! I really like tutoring and working with people on their writing. I have helped student-athletes a little in the past and have experienced the struggles that a lot of these little freshman go through as they are still transitioning from high school classes into the "real grown up world." Ha. Anyways, I know that some of these guys and girls are only coming in because they need hours, they are desperate to just get this paper out of the way with a little bit of help, or because they really have no idea. Others are coming for help because they really care about their school work and are truly struggling with hope of some advice on their papers. Either way, I really enjoy working with younger college students and getting them experience with writing and editing papers. I think it's going to be a great experience and a way to reach out to troubled writers.
Our Project
I am very excited / a little nervous about the project. I think this will be an excellent opportunity for us because we will be helping these students with their wirtings, but also it will give us a chance to interact with people that we might not interact with outside of this assignment. I am hoping that this experience will allow me to learn how to help others with writing and to learn something (other techniques and how to interact with the other writers) from the students that we are helping. I am nervous because I have never really done anything like this before, but I am confident that this group will succeed with our assignment, be able to help these students and will learn many things by completing this task.
Expectations
As a tutor for the WSU Undergraduate Writing Center, I perform this kind of activity on an almost daily basis. I look at it as an excellent way to help students become better writers. I have found at the Writing Center that two types of students tend to come in - those who genuinely want to work on their writing and learn to become better writers, and those who just want someone to "edit" or change their papers for them. I do not know which category these students will fall under - or if there will be some from both - but I am curious to discover which. I don't think that editing someone's paper and making all the corrections for them makes them a better writer - it makes them more dependent on other's. Asking questions and having them explain themselves, and then ultimately make their own corrections, will make them a better writer - but some students don't want this kind of tutoring. I believe Sarah said that some of these students are required to come in, and some are coming of their own accord,a nd I wonder what affect this will have on their attitudes.
stoked
i know, i know, the word stoked usually brings up thoughts of "dudes" on skateboards who have little to no experience reading kenneth burke (but i don't blame them for not delving into that). but that's what i am about the workshop tonight. in just a few short hours, we as a group will get down to business with helping some of the students that i see on a regular basis. although i know that the rest of my team members will be awesome at what they do, there is a fear about screwing up, trying not to completely destroy the student-athlete's papers. which is fair. the papers will come in all forms, i anticipate, and i just hope in the few short hours that we're there a lot of people will be able to get help.
i walked around to some of the counselors on friday, and there should be a good turnout. a lot of students have work to do, and quite honestly, this is a pretty great opportunity. if i had the chance to have someone look at my paper for free in the place where i always do homework, i would be down with it. for sure. we'll see if some of the familiar faces are there, the students that i hound on to do their papers, and i hope that the other groups members have a good time. it really is a great place to be.
i walked around to some of the counselors on friday, and there should be a good turnout. a lot of students have work to do, and quite honestly, this is a pretty great opportunity. if i had the chance to have someone look at my paper for free in the place where i always do homework, i would be down with it. for sure. we'll see if some of the familiar faces are there, the students that i hound on to do their papers, and i hope that the other groups members have a good time. it really is a great place to be.
Pre-Thoughts
Tonight we launch into the tutoring session.
I will start out with a confession: I've never really tutored, outside of helping a few friends, family, or English classmates on their papers. With my friends and family it's really laid back and we just chat about their paper in a nonchalant way. English classmates are also generally easy going, though more is required and some serious analysis of the paper is necessary to help them. I'm not really sure what to expect from these students, since they don't really fit into the categories I've dealt with. I'm hoping that with these students, I might be able to help them seriously, but I don't want to tear their papers apart and make them lose confidence. I mean, I don't mind tearing apart my friends' and family's papers because they know I really care and they understand, and with English classmates that's what they love. I'm not too worried about it though, and I will simply try to point them in the right direction without controlling their paper. Seeing as I'm one of those who can hardly stop herself from correcting grammar while revising others' papers, I will try to focus on ideas and whatnot, though an occasional grammar correction might slip through to release the tension I get from not correcting grammar.
Anyways, I look forward to tonight's two hour tutoring experience, and I expect to have a good time.
I will start out with a confession: I've never really tutored, outside of helping a few friends, family, or English classmates on their papers. With my friends and family it's really laid back and we just chat about their paper in a nonchalant way. English classmates are also generally easy going, though more is required and some serious analysis of the paper is necessary to help them. I'm not really sure what to expect from these students, since they don't really fit into the categories I've dealt with. I'm hoping that with these students, I might be able to help them seriously, but I don't want to tear their papers apart and make them lose confidence. I mean, I don't mind tearing apart my friends' and family's papers because they know I really care and they understand, and with English classmates that's what they love. I'm not too worried about it though, and I will simply try to point them in the right direction without controlling their paper. Seeing as I'm one of those who can hardly stop herself from correcting grammar while revising others' papers, I will try to focus on ideas and whatnot, though an occasional grammar correction might slip through to release the tension I get from not correcting grammar.
Anyways, I look forward to tonight's two hour tutoring experience, and I expect to have a good time.
Wednesday, November 5, 2008
Our plan
The final project for Dr. Eddy's class will be putting on a writing tutorial workshop in the Athletic Department, working with student-athletes on their assignments due in the next couple of weeks. Many of the group members have not worked specifically with this population of students on the WSU campus, and the Athletic Department is a culture all its own. We anticipate many student-athletes at this academic opportunity on Sunday, November 9th from 7 to 9 pm in the Bohler Athletic Complex. This blog is a space where group members will reflect on their expectations of the event and their evaluation of the experience, working within class concepts and guidelines to inform the responses. I look forward to this event, and to working with my "brother and sister writers," as Dr. Eddy would say.
Welcome to the blogging world, friends. -Sarah
Welcome to the blogging world, friends. -Sarah
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